"Totally coup, yo."

Ayn Rand vs. The Jesus

Jun

09

by

“Progressive” religious group frames fight against Paul Ryan budget around Ayn Rand’s atheism

It’s the Melee for America’s Morons!

The Duel of the Demagogues!

An Altercation of Alliteration!

rand-v-jesus

Tonight’s fight is authorized by the Nevada Framing Commission, promoted by the American Values Network, and brought to you by Jesus and Jesus Lite. Jesus and Jesus Lite: The King of Jews!™

In this corner: the challenger, weighing in at 37 lbs of rotting asshole, she’s been called the “Sultan of Selfishness,” the “Object of Objectivism,” the “Libertarian Lunatic”…Ayn Rand!

And in this corner: weighing in at 0 lbs of absolutely nothing, we have the “Terror of the Old Testament,” the “Jealous Jehova,” the “Preternatural Pugilist,” the “beardy space guy who is also somehow his son and a ghost or whatever,” and the reigning heavyweight champion of profoundly stupid American ethics…God!

Let’s get ready to intellectually stumble!!!!!

Yeah…this is a real thing:

Actual bad argument

Actual bad argument

The American Values Network was founded by Burns Strider. He’s a big Christian consultant, paid by Democrats like Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi to help them  connect with middle-Americans suffering under systemic religious delusion. He’s been involved with over 100 campaigns, founded the Eleison Group, he blags for the Huffington Post and does panel discussions at Netroots.

Strider and his clients represent the diseased intellect of the communications industry. It’s hard to tell whether Strider actually thinks this is a valid argument or if he’s just a panderer. Regardless, the message is clear:

"Nobody messes with The Jesus."

“Line…”

In America, atheism is considered a valid counterargument to anything. TIME’s Swampland blog calls it “Paul Ryan’s Ayn Rand Problem”. A columnist for a lesser Beast writes, “Thank God (pardon the expression) someone is pointing this out.”  Benighted middle-Americans are now so outraged they are trying to give Ryan books:

Books!

Is it smart to talk about the immorality of the Randroids’ economic dogma? Yes. It may even be strategically smart to equate that immorality with atheism–in the short term. Atheists consistently rank as the least trusted group in America, after all. But it’s also incredibly stupid, overly cynical and a case of framing gone badly off the rails. It’s also pure asshole. In the long term, this hyper-religious framing is dangerous.

I recently attended a talk by science journalist Chris Mooney. He stressed that the ideals of the enlightenment are dead. Communication isn’t all about providing facts, reason and a sound argument. The prevailing trend in “progressive” communication is to pander to the lowest common denominator. This approach is surely valid, in some arenas, but it carries a risk. The risk being: everyone gets more dumber. It’s a kind of “stupidity blowback.”

Kathy Hochul pulled off an upset in NY-26 based solely on Ryan’s plan for Medicare vouchers. Voters saw this plan as inherently immoral, not because Ryan loves an atheist philosopher, but because it’s inherently immoral to take away health care for our elderly and replace it with a coupon. It’s also inherently immoral to cut taxes on the richest Americans while our income inequality is greater than any other industrialized country on the planet. Americans are dumb, but they’re not that dumb. Right?

And, of course, the actual argument is ridiculous. It makes about as much sense to slam Ryan and his hero based on this clip:

The difference being that “Charlie’s Angels” was a real thing–further proof against the existence of God. Atheism was Rand’s one rational position, and to presume that her tragically flawed approach to economics naturally follows from this one rational position is an example of the evil she attributed to religion. This type of moral absolutism is the stuff witch hunts are made of.

Maybe the ends justify the means for the Democrats with this despicable communication tactic. But what’s to stop them from employing this technique on a real progressive? Because, and I hate to be the one to break it to you, you cannot be both religious and progressive. You’re either progressive or you think an ancient and contradictory text, written by dudes who would have thought a light bulb was magic, has any fucking bearing on reality.

The point here is that employing and encouraging religious framing around issues like economics and global warming may be tempting, but will only serve to undercut a real progressive agenda because real progressive values are not rooted in bullshit. And that’s the ultimate irony here. The perverse economic leanings of Rand devotees smacks of cultism. That dogma has no basis is empirical reality. Its priests are the wealthy who are intent on justifying their superiority–their disproportionate share of America’s collective wealth. Like any religion, it’s a scam.

When you roll around in bullshit, it’s hard to remove the stench. Appealing to outmoded and fantastic myths to argue against an economic philosophy, which is egregiously dumb on its face, serves to reinforce the same type of magical thinking that the Randroids thrive on.  And every time some Christian consultant helps a Democrat connect with middle-America via religious pandering, progressives dig the hole of irrationality a little deeper.

And, as mentioned, it’s pure asshole.

  • la beastie

    Religion may be dumb scammy irrational thinking, but its also not going away anytime soon – especially Christianity, ESPECIALLY because atheists and agnostics call it dumb scammy irrational thinking. Christ (no pun intended), listen to yourself. Would you convince anyone that not believing in anything at all is better? Sure doesn’t make you sound any more intelligent if all you have to offer in return is insults.

    So – this tactic is pointing out that you can’t be a Jesus fan and a Rand fan at the same time. Perfectly true, for lots of reasons, and not just because Rand didn’t dig the big J.C. Pointing out that the philosophies of Objectivism and Christianity are mutually incompatible is fair game. Trashing Rand simply because she was atheist isn’t, I agree. However, given her shallowness and general love of the ubermench concept, it wouldn’t have hurt her to have the precepts of “give a shit about someone else” hammered into her at an early age; it very well could have taken root. And that’s what religion is, folks – some people need some type of authority to tell them its ok to give a shit about others. And just like Rand has one thing she got right, Christianity got one thing right – all the hippie dippy shit Jesus taught about that gets ignored for the prosperity Gospel.

    Christianity is dumb magical thinking but its original precepts are not all bad, and they’re a hell of a lot better than the misappropriation of it to serve capitalism. You’d rather not have it at all and trust me, I sympathize, but it ain’t gonna happen.

  • http://anteprepro.xanga.com/weblog/ Anteprepro

    Eh, I think it’s more than fair to point out that Objectivist philosophy goes hand-in-hand with atheism, far more than even communism, and that this is not consistent with the GOP’s attempts to both pretend that Objectivism justifies their economic policies while also pretending to be the only American political party officially supported by Jesus. Then again, like it is news to anyone that Republicans believe in self-contradictory nonsense.

  • Joseph Sciortino

    Jesus was a decent guy. Don’t like his “followers” too much.

  • Cthulhu

    Jesus was in the habit of urinating blood on a daily basis.

  • http://anteprepro.xanga.com/weblog/ Anteprepro

    Pffft, Jesus was not that decent of a guy, and there really isn’t that much decent in Christianity. I mean, fuck, the only decent humane ideas in there are give to the poor and turn the other cheek, both of which are presented as give away fucking everything you own and a form of extreme pacifism that would suicidal if anyone actually followed it to the letter. Then you have the fact that Jesus gave us the entire doctrine of hell and expected his followers to abandon their family, spoke of the apocalypse as happening “within this generation” (imagine the archetypal “THE END IS NIGH” hobo), and wanted so badly to keep those gruesome Old Testament laws in play . See Mark 7:9-13, where he laments about people no longer stoning disobedient children, as God intended. Or Luke 12:47-50, where Jesus suggests that a master beating his servant is to be expected and where he admits that he has come to bring division rather than peace on Earth. Oh, what a fine man, that Jesus. Truly he was a decent man and a fine moral teacher.

  • Cthulhu

    Don’t you preach about morality; that fucker was straight, brats should be snuffed and slaves must be beaten. How the hell do you set an example for others if you don’t make an example? Jesus came, bitched about his bullshit doctrine, made a few common sense cracks, and got his ass owned on a piece of wood. Give that man a klondike bar.

  • http://youtu.be/mlrLw914Plw Joe Dixon

    @la Beastie. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. First off, the best way to bring down absurd claims is to ridicule them. To paraphrase Gorden Gekko: Mockery and name calling is good. Insults work. Finger pointing and laughing clarifies, cuts through, and captures, the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

    Christ, listen to YOURself. Religion has been given the ball and allowed to run with it unchallenged for centuries. This tactic has not only allowed people to cherish their stupid ideas but to think everyone shares them. When I was a young man growing up Christian, nobody said boo about unbelief. So I was allowed to be in a cocoon of stupid for entirely too long. I wish I had folks around me to say that they thought my ideas were absurd. It would have forced me to defend them and in defending them realize I believed a lot of crazy shit that made no sense.

    Will true believers be swayed by being attacked? Perhaps, perhaps not. My guess is, though, that those on the fence will more likely give up their God delusion when someone-in strong terms-shows them how silly virgin births and life after death is when you stop to think about it. The religious at least need to know that a lot of us just don’t accept the supernatural on face value. They need to know that saying they have ‘faith’ is not the trump card they seem to think it is. And slamming their religion HARD does that just fine.

    In any case, if the journal for the Society of Personality and Social Psychology is to be believed then the more vocal atheist are the more atheism is accepted, not less. Here’s a link to the abstract: http://psp.sagepub.com/content/37/4/543.abstract

    So it doesn’t matter if there are more of them than us. Their were more people who thought slavery was great then thought it should be abolished. Fortunately, the Abolitionist didn’t see think that was a good enough reason to not attempt to end slavery.

  • Joseph Sciortino

    I concede. Vocal atheism is one thing, mockery is another. I think the latter is great for humor but in actual dialogue with the religious…

  • Joseph Sciortino
  • anonymouse

    This type of framing is just an example of progressives coming to terms with the fact that the pulpit (or the madrassa, or the temple, or the etc.) has always been the most effective medium for spreading one particular ideology or another, and it will continue to be this way for the near future.

    Hell, the main reason why Canada is significantly more left-wing than the U.S. despite both cultures being almost identical in terms of culture and economics is that many of the leaders of Canadian Socialism have been ministers, priests, or nuns.

  • Joseph Sciortino

    It’s southern/western culture. Manifest Destiny, snake-oil salesmen, Pentecostal lunacy.

  • CrazyMama

    Jesus was the original progressive hippy. Sorry you guys are wrong, being spiritual and progressive isn’t a contradiction. Besides atheism is a religion without spirituality, the followers are just as big of pain in the asses as christians and are constantly trying to convert us spiritual non religion people over to their team.

    If I want to believe in a zombie jesus, why does it hurt you?

  • Joseph Sciortino

    But American culture overall, including up north and out east, isn’t far enough removed from the pandering to bygone agrarian feudalism and an obsession with a Calvinistic elite to move into social democracy. Not now, anyway. Who knows what the next twenty years will entail, except chaos?

  • admin

    CrazyMama,
    I said nothing abut “spirituality”; I said you can’t be progressive and religious. Atheism is not a religion. But some atheists call themselves “spiritual.” The terms “religious” and “spiritual” are not interchangeable. And, of course, the idea that you can’t be religious and progressive was hyperbole on my part. There are religious progressives–but they’re progressive for culturally conservative reasons: an antique book, which has no bearing on reality. It’s something I should have mentioned in the above piece, and they should simply skip the middleman.

    Some atheists can be a pain in the ass, and as that community grows, more will have arrived at that philosophy out of fashion rather than thought. BUT insofar as there are atheist proselytizers, they have a somewhat more noble mission. They say, “Come with us; the sky is blue.” Religious types say, “Come with us; the sky is plaid.”

    While tribalism or “team,” as you call it, is always in play, that’s not the bedrock of theist or atheist communities. It’s important, no doubt, but it’s the description of reality that holds these communities together (if they are that). Just sayin.

  • http://anteprepro.xanga.com/weblog/ Anteprepro

    CrazyMamaL “If I want to believe in a zombie jesus, why does it hurt you?”

    Why is it that this “Freedom to be Wrong” only seems to come up in religious discussions? And why does it always seem like a bait-and-switch tactic that almost purposefully ignores the fact that those that believe in zombie Jesus are actively attempting to force everyone to act in a manner to appease their fictional entities of choice and are regularly trying to convert others to their own point of view? Why do the nice wittle spiritual types seem to always forget that the poor Christians are the majority and are actively proselytizing and shaping our culture when griping about the mean atheists criticizing that culture and their beliefs? Why do they also not turn around and ask, if holding the beliefs are of so little impact, why Christians go to such desperate to craft education systems where they can teach children, as young as possible, about the alternate reality that literal conservative Christianity mistakes for actual reality? If belief is so innocuous and something that is one’s right to attain without interference, then what should it matter if the young ‘uns aren’t rigidly taught religious nonsense from birth, right?

    Oh, but yeah, atheists are assholes. How dare they be so vocal in saying that the vocal Christians are wrong!? What does it hurt them if people believe wrong things, coerce others into believing those same things, and have government policy demands based on those wrong things? The atheist minority is obviously just as bad as Christian majority for trying to get heard and change people’s opinions (in a country where same Christian majority has already done so, excessively, and poisoned the well against atheists centuries in advance)! Why can’t they all just be “spiritual”, and not give a fuck about truth, but still be smug about how much they don’t give a fuck? Then we’d truly be living in a utopia!

  • CrazyMama

    I went to catholic school and I was turned away from religion. People will believe whatever lies they want. The message of peace and love isn’t a bad thing but the christians stole a philosphers ideas (i consider jesus or the multiple people turned into jesus a wise philospher, it depends on which historian you ask).
    For as many horrid memories I have of south buffalo catholic schools, there were just as many good. There is a certain community aspect of it that I will forever cherish. People in a parish are really there for eachother. Somebodies house burns down or husband dies the parish members are often there to help and act as an extended family. I am not saying atheist are bad, but you can’t deny the certain community aspects of a parish. I am not a fan of religion but I think the community gathering to celebrate life brings people together.

    Religion is the oldest ponzi scheme but it seems many atheist are taking the same path. Athiest scholars are selling out for money like the catholic church has in the past but leaving out the community aspect. I urge you people to take the good of religion and you can leave the spiritual out. The most important jesus message is love and peace. Whether you believe in his existence love your neighbor. Conservitards are walking contridiction with that.

    Let science be your religion but don’t let science kill the little humanity religion offers. Take care of your neighbor!

  • CrazyMama

    I will openly admit I believe in the power of voodoo prayer. I don’t give a shit if science proves me wrong. So what I am naive. Whether it’s a pyschological crutch or something that actually works, when I feel stressed over something, I find myself saying a ritualistic prayer. It helps calm me.
    And the way the catholic church approaches teaching religion to children is a bit creepy. I remember being really freaked out by having to stare at Jesus hanging on the cross. Then having to look at pictures of jesus getting beaten. Then being told how he suffered and died for my sins. Then as we became older we got to see boys from Timon and girls from mercy reenact the beating and crusification of christ. Catholic schools invest in red crayons so that kids can draw or color pictures of jesus being beaten. Then people wonder why so many in south Buffalo end up drunk and angry..

    Pass me another red crayon please…

    Off topic.. but the state of buffalo public school makes the affordable catholic schools more appealing to middle class buffalonians. You people want someone to cover the mess of being a Buffalo parent? lmao.. For profit charter schools? catholic schools? or you can be lucky enough to have a gifted and talented student or get picked in a lottery for one of the few good schools.

    Then we have carpet baggers from parent revolution trying to get a parent trigger law under the name buffalo parent empowerment act. Which really is just a bill pushed by people who favor for profit charter schools. The whole bill is written in double speak and they think Buffalo parents are dumb enough to fall for it. The only problem is many are dumb enough to fall for it. The district parent coordinating council (the boycott people) are backed by for profit charter groups and religious groups. the dpcc claims to represent the parents in the district yet I don’t agree with them on anything other than the district is a mess.

    If you support a progressive agenda, then you need to look at education. The system is a mess and so right winged carpet baggers who are funded by billionaires trying to upsett our system even more. I am not anti charter schools, but the parent trigger laws don’t allow parents to create a charter, they allow already established charter groups ie for profit charter groups, to take over a failing school if parents agree. It also only requires 50% of the parent signatures, so that isn’t even a majority. Then the carpet baggers use double speak on the parents when they go to get signatures.

    I had respect for the huff post until I saw Parent revolution (who tries and calls themselves the parents union, although it’s corporations and not parents paying union dues so you know where the loyality is) ceo ben austin given blog space.

    If you really want to go off on religion and right winged agenda look no further then the so called parent groups in Buffalo and their sponsors. Then look at the paren empowerment act of buffalo and read what the california group parent revolution has on their site.

    I don’t think the BTF is perfect, but I don’t think multi million dollar for profit groups should be taking tax dollars meant to be used for education and using it for their gain. These charter schools are successful because they ship the special needs and behavioral problems back to public school where they have to take them.

    I am sorry about this rant, but I figured my progressive brothers might take a stab at looking into these education groups. The Buffalo school board members are for the most part decent and willing to help parents in the district. If a parent is involved, they don’t need union representation from some puesdo parent group that doesn’t want to be bothered with helping parents of children with special needs. I have had to call them about problems with a school and it was taken care of with in a day.

    This isn’t a local issue. It’s a national issue. The problem in this country isn’t the teachers union, finland has teachers union but not all the problems we have. In ny state especially the standards are too high. Do you have a regents diploma? Because now every child in the state must have one unless they qualify for what is called an IEP diploma (basically a diploma for serious handicapped people).

    Doesn’t it piss you off that for profit groups are manipulating poor and middle class americans into excepting a bill written in newspeak? I am done with my rant on education in a spot that is meant to be about atheism. However religion is suppose to be left out of education and for some reason the DPCC has quite a few religious backers. Look at their official website and look at their associates.

  • admin

    CrazyMama,
    Ha! My sister went to Mount Mercy, and I went to PS # 67, where my teacher once threatened me with physical violence for having the gall to spell “library” correctly. “Spell it phonetically,” she demanded. “Li-barry!” Anyway, yeah, education is the most important factor for a progressive agenda. I shutter to think of the type of Randesque indoctrination that could happen at these for-profit charter schools.

    But I don’t see a lot of prominent atheists selling out. You are right, however, about the community aspect of religion being hard to replace. The connection people make and the ritual aspect of religion makes our brains produce oxytocin — the love drug. Here’s something about that: http://www.buffalobeast.com/?p=1123

    And, yes, you are crazy if you think voodoo prayer does anything outside of your own mind. It may calm you, like mediation might, but that’s about it.

    And Jesus…you sure he existed? I expect a 3,000 word, nearly incoherent rant on this by sunup…GO!

  • Ozinator

    There is very little evidence of a historical Jesus much less a magic Christ…that being said, there are plenty progressive Christians who take the messages they like and have that as their religion. They happen to be mostly black folks too!

    What’s a bigger mistake than calling a Christian progressive, is calling a Democrat progressive.

  • CrazyMama

    Sorry I am late with handing in a response. I have an excuse from my therapists.
    It’s unknown whether jesus was one person or a cult of gnostic followers, or maybe he was several different people rolled into one that lived over a 100 years. The evidence doesn’t need to be there, like it or not the character known as jesus had more influence over western society than anyone else who ever existed real or fiction.

    If you look at it, the original message of christianity was tolerance and acceptance. Somehow it turned into hate people who aren’t christian and women are below men. I have disected the bible not because of any belief but because I am a nerd who likes to read and was raised on the “good book.” You can’t deny the historical aspects of it, in that it gives us a vision of what was valued to certain societies throughout history.

    And for years before I had children I would get stoned and read the bible on sunday. There are some really funny tidbits in the bible. Like jesus cursing the fig tree. And there is a ton of references in the old testament about beating fools. Then don’t forget the women hygenine laws for the monthly curse in the old testament. Don’t knock the bible, it has more value than one would believe.

    To say the bible was inspired by the word of god is far fetched. There are too many contridictions with in it’s pages to be inspired by one spiritual entity unless that spiritual entity has split personality disorder.

    Since I see you have the south Buffalo connection with me, I am going guess if your family was in a parish you were either in St. Martin’s with father neu or st, tommies with father art. If I grew up with them as my priest I’d hate catholics. I was lucky I grew up in st. ambrose parish with awesome priest who encouraged us to think for ourselves at an early age.

    I am also guessing you didn’t goto Timon for high school because you could spell. Unless you were one of the four kids in your graduating class that could spell a word besides genny and keg party.

    67 is now called discovery and it is the most desired public school in south buffalo now. They host the only autism program in the city (btw next you try and impersonate aspergers I hope your audience isn’t as dumb as the fundies, that article is the most offensive funniest thing I have ever read), but the fucked up part is you have to be connected to get your child into that program. I could go on and on. It’s funny because when you read the school zone blog and educational page in the buffalo news, they ignore all the real problems.

    So as a working class parent in the city of Buffalo of 3 children, I can either send my kids to a public school and have them treated as a number, send them to a charter school and have them treated like a corporate asset, or a catholic school. I can’t afford the non denominational private schools, south buffalo catholic schools are affordable. However charter and catholic schools leave kids with special needs and behavioral issues in the public schools, hence why so many BPS’s are failing. Then the teachers get blamed, yet some of these schools have high ESl student populations and ny state gives the kids a year to learn english before they have to take state mandated tests. The teachers at the low performing schools aren’t the politically connected teachers, they are the ones who feel lucky to have a job.

    I will say this about my religion classes when I was in the high school level, I learned a lot about the human condition. We took a class called death and dying in 12th grade, it had little to do with the christian beliefs of death. We studied the stages of grieving for half the class and I learned a lot that helped me over the years. We also learned about how different cultures celebrated ones life after they died. And we wrote our own obituaries and planned our funerals. I had really good teachers who didn’t just teach us beliefs, but taught us pyschology. We studied Jung in 10th grade and learned about personality archetypes. It’s funny my 11th grade religion teacher was a feminist, and she tried to teach us that there is no one way to look at god. Some girls were so indoctinated that they would argue with this teacher over whether god was a man or not. This teacher opened up her religion class with God could be a woman.

    I was well educated at Mercy and for every awful teacher I had I had one good one throughout all my years of catholic school. My 10th grade english teacher introduced me to beatnik poetry and really helped me to love poetry. I wouldn’t have gotten that in public school. I was exposed to things others weren’t until college. We had a lot of young teachers who this was there first job out of college.

    Maybe the beast could start a charter school for future satire writers and either make a profit or get a tax write off like the for profit school corporations do. You know you loooooooove my idea!

  • CrazyMama

    Btw sorry I was late on my rant.. I am a busy women trying to raise moral children with little indoctrination.

    Many Parents in south buffalo try to raise moral kids with religion and don’t teach the children accountability. Telling a child that they will be accountable after they die doesn’t mean shit to them. Having them go and apologize when they wrong someone is going to teach them better.
    Or having them do some form of retribution when they do something wrong. You don’t need to goto church and give them 10 bucks in the collection plate every week to teach accountability.

    In the name of the father son and holy ghost, AMEN!

  • CrazyMama

    haha one more rant..

    So called progressive democrats are supporting for profit charter schools and calling them “school choice” for parents. Ben Austin from parent revolution, (the california group sending out carpetbaggers) worked for the clinton administration and makes 15,000 a month to push for charter schools.

    I am not opposed to charter schools when it’s parents or educators putting in for the charter. I believe elmwood village charter school was started by parents and educators. Tapestry and enterprise are run by for profit groups. And tapestry does their best to keep the poor out by not having students bus in. But they don’t discriminate against gay couples so it’s ok if they keep the poor out, right?

    You don’t hear catholics talking about voucher programs. Their vouchers come from parish funds and fundraising.

    Progressive catholics, like my grandparents, are becoming a dying breed but they still exists. My grandfather goes to church everyday and so does my grandmother. They have gay friends, which says a lot for their generation. And my grandfather calls himself a socialist. My grandmother is pro life, but is pro birth control and thinks abortion should be used in certain cases (again huge for a catholic of that generation). They can see the forest from the trees. They have volunteered and protested for labor rights throughout the years.

    I guess my backround is atypical for most catholics but I am lucky.

    And one more thing.. if you believe science can explain everything, can you explain the bodily fluids of father baker being fresh when he was dug up 50 years after he died?

  • Joe Dixon

    Sweet Christmas! What a lot of nonsense you spout Crazy Mama. Well, as much has already been gone over, I’ll make my objections quick. Here are my 3 points of contention:

    1. “Jesus was the original progressive hippy.” Wrong. Jesus brings us hell, a place that is absent from all of the Old Testament. He also says he’s come to turn brother against brother, sister against sister (etc.) and demands that if you want to follow him you must abandon your family. Also, notice how he treats pigs, fig trees and ignores people with possible substance abuse problems at weddings. Not very hippy or progressive.

    2. “If you look at it, the original message of christianity was tolerance and acceptance.” I was taught the original message of Christianity was the OT. There is no tolerance and acceptance in that book unless you consider mass murder and land grabs tolerant. If you’d rather say it began with Christ, that’s fine but then you’ll have to contend with #1 on my list.

    3. “I don’t give a shit if science proves me wrong.” And that’s the real problem you and your ilk have with atheists. You don’t like facts. However, on the off hand chance someone not crazy runs across this I recommend they go to the website, What’s The Harm? Here is the link: http://whatstheharm.net/whatisthis.html Not sure how often they update but the info. is all still valid. Because, you see, it really does matter if science proves you wrong. There is harm in ignorance.

  • Anthony

    I’ve been wondering when or whether the teapartiers and their ilk would eventually discover that the ideas they have glommed onto (minimal government, no welfare programs, minimal or flat taxes) are largely a result of die hard acolytes of Ayn Rand. I have also wondered how the ones who do understand this (being predominantly white and Christian) have managed to reconcile this “philosophy” with their professed beliefs. You are right to observe that “The perverse economic leanings of Rand devotees smacks of cultism.” As you may already know: During her heyday, Rand actually presided over what amounted to a cult. It was hierarchically structured, demanded strict conformity, and allowed no dissent from her “philosophy.” (which she never really outlined in any great detail to my knowledge) Her followers did that. And if any fundamentalist Christian ever took the time to read the most prominent works by Leonard Peikoff, their fucking heads would explode after the first couple of chapters.

  • Anthony

    I’d also like to say that there are alot of vapid fucking responses on this message board. I just wasted ten minutes scrolling up, looking for something interesting to read, to no avail. CrazyMama- you have used up entirely too much space with your silly and inane babblings. Please stop this. You are an awful twat.

  • CrazyMama

    Anthony thanks to freedom of speech laws, I have the right to babble and go on rants after I take a sleeping pill. Too bad so sad! Now maybe if you were a sleep at 2am instead of trolling the net at 2 am, you would be up to get some vitamin d from the sunshine. Science shows that not getting vitamin D turns one into a miserable prick, which appears to be your problem.
    Bam bitches! I will rant if I want too, unless these gentlemen that run the page want to block me. Which I wouldn’t blame them if they did. Until then mwwwwwa!

  • Anthony

    CrazyMama (a.k.a. a cunt)- I thought I told you to stop posting here. I wasn’t trolling around at 2am you imbecile. I live in Hawaii. There’s a time difference. I guess that sort of negates your whole sunshine theory also eh? My hostility is due to the fact that you are an annoying woman who sticks up for an irrelevant, archaic cult that does far more harm than good in this world. I shan’t write to you any longer. Silly cow.

  • Anthony

    I’d have fucked Ayn Rand in her youth, maybe approaching middle age. I’m not ashamed. I’d have fucked her angrily to the best of my ability. I’d have fucked her selfishly. So selfishly.

  • http://anteprepro.xanga.com/weblog/ Anteprepro

    Personally, I’d prefer fucking Jesus to Ayn Rand. Or, you know, pretty much anyone else or anything. Mostly because I’m pretty sure the movie Teeth was a documentary about Ayn Rand’s younger years. And Objectivism may or may not be an STD.

  • thisagain

    Anthony, I’m gonna call you Tony. little bitch. Leave the other posters alone.

  • Anthony

    Oh look- an Internet tough guy. Who could have guessed that this would be indicative of all thisagain’s future writings? Oh- everyone.

  • B.S.

    BlahblahblahblahJesusblahblahAynRandblahfuckingblah.

    It’s the current fashion to hate both of them nowadays; in a few years the pendulum will swing again. It always does, ad nauseam. That’s because there are many many different ways to interpret the meaning of the teachings/writings of both of them. There is no black or white.

    I have a googol of respect for people who actually take the time to read the literal *mountains* of text required to have any idea of what either of the above-mentioned entities’ principals are..whether I agree with their conclusions or not. Murphy.

    As for the rest of the Animal Farm crowd who gets their opinion of the week from whoever shouts it the loudest and most often: go read a fucking book. And stop voting. Please.

  • James W. Harris

    Rand’s core political idea was that people should be free to do anything they wish with their lives and property, as long as they simply didn’t harm other people or their property.

    Thus Rand was for free speech, sexual freedom including complete sexual liberty for gays, legalized drugs, religious freedom, the full panoply of freedoms protected by the Bill of Rights, and (yes) free enterprise. She opposed all subsidies to corporations. She opposed the military draft.

    She was thus far more radical in her defense of civil liberties than almost any political figure in progressive politics today.

    If today’s righwing was actually devoted to these ideals of hers — which of course it is not — our political debate would be far better than it is.

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